Further amendment: all’s well that ends well – about 48 hours after the purchase, they gave me a full refund and were pretty nice about it. I guess I just caught them on a bad day.
Amendment: thanks for all the comments and advice here, on twitter and on the BNM mailing list. Looks like all the interest caused the shop to change their mind and offer me a refund.
I’m taking a break from my usual UX related stuff to ask for some advice in this post.
Last night I walked into Solutions inc in Brighton and bought a Macbook Pro. Or so I thought.
Having got the laptop home and started it up, I realized I’d been given a old model. I can understand how they made the mistake as it looks almost identical, is priced almost identically, and has almost identical packaging. The receipt shows that I bought the old model – but still, it was the store’s fault, as I clearly asked for the newer Pro model. So I went straight back in there and asked to swap it for the newer model and pay the small excess (only £50 or so).
Sounds reasonable? They wouldn’t take it back. They are saying they don’t legally have to take it back as I have opened the box, but in this case they will charge me a restocking fee (£50), plus the excess (approx £50) to give me the newer Macbook Pro. (Note: they aren’t offering me a refund, period).
They are also being really unpleasant, saying that if I take them to court they will win because “They’ve never lost a case at small claims court”. The manager, Daniel, wouldn’t even give me his surname. He also refused to give me the firstname or surname of the sales assistant who sold me the laptop (I suspect it may have been the sales assistant’s first day or something because he was having trouble with the till and didn’t know much about the stock).
So, my question is to you, dear readers, what do I do now? Do I take it back and pay the restocking fee (etc)? Or do I hang onto a computer that I don’t want, and go through the tiresome process of taking them to small claims court?
If I lived in the UK, I’d be more than glad to stand in front of their store with a sign and protest along side you. That’d show ‘em right?
I swear customer service has gone out the window everywhere these days.
Thanks Brad! More than anything I’m just shocked – this isn’t what I’d expect from an Apple reseller. Oh Well.
A quick bit of research tell’s me they are breaking the Sales of Goods Act
http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/buying-selling/sale-supply/sale-of-good-act/page8600.html
http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/fact-sheets/page38311.html
I’m sure the small claims court would be on your side, you have essentially been conned, and after explaining the issue to the shop, they have refused to be helpful.
The box being opened doesn’t reduce the quality / value of the product, so they don’t really have a reason for not letting you return for a full refund.
I think this line is also key:
“If goods do not conform to contract at the time of sale, purchasers can request their money back “within a reasonable time”"
You’re contract was verbal if you said you wanted the latest model. And verbal contracts do stand up in court.
They are probably trying to get rid of the old models and trying to scare you off with talk of “never losing a case”, they probably have never had one!
I am sure that Apple won’t be to happy with the way they are conducting business either, as it is tarnishing their brand and product image also.
They are definitely acting unlawfully.
That said, before the small claims path, hint to them that they might get a nice feature in the local paper – and of course that you will tweet about it. I anticipate a positive outcome.
DM or email for Argus contact.
I’m all for buying local, but after one bad experience with these clowns (years ago) I have always used Cancom.
That is unbelievable. If their return policy isn’t clear, I would have a friend go into the store, pretend interested in an expensive product, and ask about their policy (record it secretly or get a paper copy).
No matter what their policy is, they are definitely breaking the law here (as Adam pointed out). You should be firm, polite, and give them the option of swapping for the new model or you will pursue a straight return (in court if necessary). Any smart company would choose the first option.
I’ve posted this elsewhere, so you might have seen it, but anyway…
You’re clearly in the right legally, and it’s the Sale of Goods Act you want to cite. The goods must be “as described”, and this includes the verbal description which the assistant gave you. You stated what you wanted, but where unknowingly sold something else – and its their responsibility to ensure you get the goods you ask for, not yours to make sure they’re as-described.
That you’ve opened the box makes no difference – you contacted them promptly as soon as you realised their error, which is in your favour. They can’t charge a restocking fee, either.
The reason why they’re being sticky is that Apple will probably not accept it as a return once the box has been opened (which they can do, legally, with a dealer), and Solutions’ chances of being able to sell the returned MacBook are pretty minimal. So I can understand why they don’t want to refund you, but it’s not your problem and you should persist.
Talk to Solutions again, and put down what happened in writing to them – an email is fine, but you just need to make sure you document as much as possible. If they continue to refuse to refund you the money (insist on a refund, not a replacement), call Brighton and Hove Trading Standards on 01273 292523. Trading Standards can intervene on your behalf – usually a phone call or letter from them is enough to get a dispute solved before you need to go to court.
One final thing: if you do end up thinking about court, the law now requires you to at least consider Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) schemes first (you can end up paying both sides’ costs even if you win if you don’t). If you’ve approached Trading Standards and/or the CAB before diving into small claims court, it will show you have attempted to settle the dispute reasonably – and if Solutions were to refuse to enter into the ADR, they could end up paying *your* costs even if you lost. So it’s worth exploring every avenue prior to court if you can.
Hi,
I write the consumer issues columns “Watchdog” in .net magazine and “Counter Intelligence” in Windows Magazine.
The advice these folks are giving you is absolutely right. Under the Sale of Goods act you are entitled to a refund or replacement if the goods you have been sold are not as described. Ian’s advice above is spot on – and you should get your complaint to them in writing ASAP.
A good source for easy-to-digest info on your consumer rights is Consumer Direct:
http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/
You’ll find template letters there for filing complaints and advice on how to proceed. Also, if you’d like to contact me by email, I’d be happy to investigate the matter further for you.
Best,
Karl
I’ve just spoken with consumer direct and they have been absolutely brilliant. I have a clear view of what action is needed… Unfortunately it involves putting the macbook back in its box and hanging onto it until this is resolved (in a week or two).
I would call Apple. Tell them about your experience. As a vendor of Apple products, this store represents the company. They are also a face of Apple. Considering how much trouble Apple goes to in creating a positive customer experience, I would expect them to put some pressure on this vendor. Hit ‘em where it hurts: don’t give them any more of your money.
* This comment has been edited out of respect for the individuals mentioned *
I used to work for Solutions Inc. Part of the reason I left is that they went from being a nice little company to yet another box shifter and let their support/service suffer.
The MD, John Parvin [...], is available on email at john@solutions-inc.co.uk, by phone on 01273 [...] (DDI) and [...], or by AIM at [...].
My name is Leo Manning-Jones and my role at Solutions Inc. is Director of Product. The term mis-sold cannot be applied to this case, the item in question is branded ‘Macbook’ both in large clear writing on the side of the box, as well as it’s specification label. The receipt given also clearly describes the item as a Macbook, not a Macbook Pro. I would also like to point out that this model is at a different price point to the Macbook Pro range. We are always happy to exchange or refund for sealed goods as per consumer rights, however once a computer has been opened and a user account created on it it is no longer resale-able as new, our offer of a £50 restocking fee was to cover this loss.
As a good will gesture we will offer a full refund on this occasion and as such have instructed the Brighton shop manager to action.
I’m in the U.S., so I know the rules are a bit different, but I had a similar issue with Home Depot. Long story, but they basically sold me someone else’s used garbage disposal, probably an employee scam or a switch by another customer. The manager wouldn’t take it back (actually, he flat out accused me of switching it myself), so I did two things:
(1) I called the manufacturer (in your case, Apple) and let them know that the store was giving their product a bad name. Apple would rather sell you a new Macbook than a used one, I’m sure.
(2) I called corporate (not sure if this store is a chain or not) and reported the incident and the manager.
In this case, I ended up getting a refund directly from corporate and never even had to go back to the store, but in your case, they could at least put pressure on the local store. Local store managers tend to get a bit mad with power when it comes to their tiny swath of land.
When you talk to these other parties, be rational (don’t rant), present the facts, and know exactly what you want. If that doesn’t work, don’t go directly to small claims. You may be able to just have a small business lawyer draft a letter to the store. People talk tough, but an official letter from a real lawyer is often enough to change their tune.
Oh look, a back-down. Good choice, Leo.
Leo, glad to see you’ve decided to do the right thing and acknowledge what was, I’m sure, a genuine error.
I feel for you, but i also see their side. If you’ve asked for a Macbook Pro or they stated that the machine you purchased is a Macbook Pro and charged you accordingly then yes you have rights under the sales of goods act 1979. If you have simply made a mistake purchased the wrong model then they don’t have to do anything legally. however, i would expect any reasonable company to offer something. Appeal to their better nature.
Really you should know what you are buying. Are you fucking blind?? Didn’t you think to check the box or look at the receipt when you knew the price was incorrect? Still then you open it and personalize it with account details.
Also well done for getting people on Twitter & BNM involved. Don’t think you got the refund / exchange because of the all the ranting. You probably didn’t when all you probably needed to do is talk to the right person at Solutions.
As for the Ex-Staff giving out Private mobile numbers & Aim details. Shame on you!!
Harry, really they that post should be removed.
Dude seriously,
Either the person who sold it to you was new and unexperienced, or was devious and deliberately mis-sold it to you to as you claim. You can’t have it both ways.
Besides, the black text on Apple’s white boxes says either ‘Macbook’ or ‘Macbook Pro’ in 2 inch high lettering – how more obvious do you need it?
(By the way, Apple themselves charge a restocking fee of 10% for opened goods which would have been higher than fifty quid.)
Classic British Customer service. What a joke – and look at the damage done to this small shop for a pointless re-stocking fee.
Similar situation:
I bought a mid-to-high end Wacom tablet from my local Mac store. I took it home, installed it, Then realized I’d cocked up and bought the Bluetooth ONLY version. Totally my mistake.
I took it back to the shop, and swapped it for a different one that is actually cheaper.
No fuss, no charges, all done.
Welcome to Canada, where people have better things to do that be bitter, penny pinching economic doom mongering misers. I certainly don’t miss this shite. :D
It’s not about the legality of it – it’s about companies being reasonable. Solutions Inc stopped being a reasonable company a long time ago – a media shitstorm is unfortunately the only way of getting companies like this to adopt a more reasonable position, even qualified with the classic PR-speak “gesture of goodwill”. It’s not a gesture of goodwill – it’s an arse-covering exercise, following the tightening of a couple of top-level sphincters over their image.
Hey Harry, glad you got it sorted in the end.
I think this has been blown way out of proportion. Personally the staff in the Brighton shop have always been helpful and professional.
We should all support the local shops over the big corporate nastys !
And as for the “ex member” of staff putting up personal contact details….. surely they are someone who holds a grudge probably due to failing in his job and should get a life instead of stirring things up.
M x
As someone about to purchase my first Mac laptop myself I stumbled upon your thread on the Brighton New Media group and thence followed it back to here.
I have used Solutions several times in the past and I have always found them to be an extremely friendly, courteous and helpful crew. I have found this to be so in both the Brighton and Chichester stores, and to be absolutely frank – I don’t believe a word of what you say.
Here’s why:
A laptop purchase isn’t generally something done on impluse. So presumably you did all the research about prices and specification in advance and having settled on a MacBook Pro went into the shop and asked for one, to which I assume they asked you which one you would like since there are several MacBook Pro’s varying in spec and price? They would have had to have asked this question otherwise they would simply have randomly chosen one for you and presented you with the bill.
Okay, so which MacBook Pro did you settle on? Well, lets say you settled for the entry level MacBook Pro. Presumably you asked the price? Failing that, they must have told how much an entry level MacBook was? After all you did purchase what you thought was a MacBook Pro. So now they are handing it over. Did you see the big black writing on the side saying MacBook? or when you got it home before opening it? Can you see my point? It really doesn’t add-up in the slightest.
What really gets me, is the potential harm you may have done Solutions by using your blog and the BNM group to get the MacBook Pro you realised retrospectively you should have bought because it was only £50 more expensive after you foolishly bought a MacBook.
Shame on those all people so willing to believe your story and so willing spread vitriol-filled (and quite frankly libelous) comments about a situation they had only heard one half of the story.
For your information, had you bought the MacBook direct from Apple they almost certainly wouldn’t have given you a refund either.
Chris
Brighton
Dear “Chris”,
I took the trouble to google for the email address you posted with. It led to a discussion board about telescopes, where your real name was shown. I don’t want to make a big deal out of this, but that was pretty stupid as it was easy for me to then use LinkedIn to find out who you currently work for. In future, if you intend to pose as a fake customer, I recommend using a clean email address.
Dear “Paul”
I took the trouble to use an IP address lookup service to find out a bit more about you. It led directly to your real name, and funnily enough, that allowed me to work out the company you work for. In future, if you intend to do this sort of cloak and dagger thing again, I recommend not using your home computer since you have a fixed IP address that is registered to your real name. There are plenty of free wifi hotspots you could have used.
I’m bored of this. Can we all just move on now please.
* Why was Mr Brignull expected to know the exact price of the entry level Macbook Pro? Retail prices can vary and a difference of £50 really isn’t that much.
* Why was Mr Brignull expected to know that he’d been sold the wrong machine in the shop? He says he went to the shop and asked for the new entry level Macbook Pro. The shop gave him a box with “Macbook” in big letters on the side – but if he’d never seen the packaging before, why should that have alerted him?
* Why was Mr Brignull expected to read the receipt in the shop? Who does that?
When a customer enters a shop – they expect the shop to be the experts. The onus is not on the customer to “just know”; they should be told. In the highly specialised field of computing and technology, this is all the more likely.
Regardless of any of the above – Mr Brignull was entitled to a full refund or replacement because he went into the shop to buy the new, entry level Macbook Pro and was sold the old Macbook instead. It may have been a misunderstanding or an error – that does not matter.
He had, under the Sale of Goods act, the right to a replacement or refund if he returned the item “within a reasonable time”. He returned to the shop the same day – in other words, the moment he saw the laptop and realised it was the wrong model.
The continued chastisement of this gentleman for asserting his consumer rights leaves a sour taste. Furthermore it is, frankly, quite odd.
They’d be dangerous if they knew what they were doing.
So it seems like Solutions are attempting some clumsy astro-turfing to try and limit the damage.
Surely they have seen this kind of thing backfire badly in the past?
I’m…not sure why that retailer refused to take the MacBook back and sell you a MacBook Pro. It is a more expensive unit.
Confuse MacBook with MacBook Pro? Of course. But: you shouldn’t need to provide a reason.
A restocking fee? vs selling up? Huh?
Yeah they aren’t the best on service – I purchased a iphone cover and opened it to put it on – it split at the counter while I was paying for it – they refused to refund me or provide another. I walked out £20 lighter with a useless product.
Another time Solutions refused to accept my Educational discount even though I am listed with Apple as a educator. “we have our own system of… blah blah” Interestingly their educational discount also have been a bit ‘off kilter’ in the past.
Local they may be but with an Apple Store now in town they are totally surplus to requirements in my opinion.
I would guess that their market is more of the “ohh I always wanted an Apple” variety. Personally I would rather buy in John Lewis or Dixons than here!